How about getting poor people to nominate rich people for involuntary euthanasia ? Then you could get real money to restart the economy and save on supporting the truly workshy !
Reminiscent of the Venetian 'Mouth of Truth' into which anonymous notes condemning others could be posted for the Doge's henchmen to deal with! No different from Starmer threatening anyone signing a petition...we're getting there! Your suggestion of turning it back on itself is great. Now we have to find a legion of executioners!
Very good substitution for the 'Elites'. The 'Truly Workshy'. It has the recognised imprimatur of 'Ah Bless'. Who would mind an appellation combining True and Work?
Chuck Palahniuk wrote a book called Adjustment Day, it was a way to purge the excess of angry men and also “the swamp”. They would publish a list where people could add names and people voted on who needed to be purged. You would be rewarded with a government position if you got enough high ranking trophies (they took ears I think?)
The brainwashing, and the segregation, and the weird forced breeding and trading of people was really bad. But the list, and the voting on the list part, I could get behind that as long as marginalized people were never allowed to be added to the list.
As an avid reader of sci-fi I am surprised I haven't already read it ! Yes I could imagine some interesting debates about the list . The idea of killing off excess people turns up a lot in sci-fi but I have often been worried about how they were chosen eg in one US film it was noticeable that everyone was WASP to begin with so where were all the servants ? No visible robots .
What would then happen I think is the rich one would bribe a poor person saying "take my place and I will give money to your family and they'll have a better ife", or words to that effect.
They are already killing people in NHS hospitals, and have been for a long time. This will legalise that practice.. It really has FK all to do with terminally ill people - that is the foot in the door. If they cared remotely at all they'd have done it decades ago - numerous people with cancer and motor neurone disease have gone to court over the right to die AND BEEN DENIED. THIS is a eugenics bill, pure and simple, aimed ultimately at killing the 'economically unviable' = anyone older, disabled, poor, homeless, mentally ill.. Just look at what Canada is doing. Same model.
❤️ Thank you for sharing this! I know and have heard of many such people. We can’t know the future. These laws allow people to kill themselves out of fear, not out of pain.
Oh, God, I am so sorry. It is absolutely heartbreaking and it's happening to SO many people, and not all of them old. And it is absolutely deliberate. Have you come across Jacqui Deevoy? They did the same to her dad. She is a journalist and she has connected with a lot of people in the same situation as you and is makng a fuss. She is on twitter and also on substack.
Haven't heard of her, my Dad died from neglect after the Covid vaccine injection give him myocarditis and he had a small heart attack, he was released from the first hospitals heart unit after they found nothing, GP picked up blood reading straight away Sent to different hospital who didn't monitor him allowed him to fall in shower so he got a abscess on his spine, their incompetence went on and on eventually the infections they give him killed him, first time doctor arrived was to ask him to sign a do not resuscitate form, a big scam. I tried to get a solicitor to do something but it's all about money not justice
I am so glad someone is doing something about this . My mother was a doctor and got furious with patients' families who wanted her to give a parent "something" . She used to tell them that she was a doctor and not an executioner . I wondered if some people did not know that all human beings die ? It is disturbing if people do not understand that death is natural , not something that has to happen in a hospital otherwise.... people don't properly die.......?
Back in 2009 in the US we had a political party convincing people that rather than use the healthcare that will be available to them through the ACA the true patriotic thing to do is to refuse to use those “welfare benefits” and just go quietly die instead.
We have a few states that offer help with a compassionate exit, but for the most part the people chose deaths of despair. Here in illmerica people die on the freeway, they die from reckless use of substances, there’s a lot of family annihilation with self deletion, or just quiet self deletion.
And it’s not surprising, we are drowning in messaging that tells us that money is more important than anything else including time with our loved ones, and for the past 4 years we have been told that if we have any kind of chronic illness it’s fine to infect us with a deadly virus because it’s just getting us to jesus faster, which is cause for celebration.
My elderly, disabled mom chose to leave in 2019 when she only had $20 left over after paying for housing and transportation and she was only getting $16 a month in food assistance. She asked for help more than anyone I have ever met, and as a matter of fact she went to the emergency room and told them she was not OK. They kept her for a couple days and then her doctor decided that she didn’t really mean it so he sent her home. She was a bad ass who handled it herself, but my brothers and I would have a lot less trauma if we could have been with her while she was comfortable in her own bed.
Sorry, I am just furious. I worked and paid into the system for 25 years before I became disabled in an accident and I almost didn’t survive the years of homelessness and zero income before I was finally approved for disability by the SSA I have been paying into for 25 years. It’s on purpose. They want you to lose everything so rich people can snatch up your stuff at foreclosure sales.
Canada has a euthanasia bill called MAID. It is a disaster. Anyone can apply and use. A female veteran was offered MAID because she wanted a chair lift in her house. In 2022, there were 13,241 MAID provisions reported in Canada, accounting for 4.1% of all deaths in Canada. The number of cases of MAID in 2022 represents a growth rate of 31.2% over 2021. Those numbers are from a government publication. I believe people should be able to die if they are terminal. We should be giving the power back to the people so they can make the choice not their illness. Canadians can receive MAID for a “grievous and irremediable” condition, even when natural death isn’t imminent. Instead of fixing our problems the government will let you die.
Exactly ! According to my doctor mother that happens all the time . In fact is it said to encourage suicide ? Here in the UK they worry about having too many old people ie "economically inactive" and "a drain on the economy" . Interestingly it is largely Asian doctors who look after them whether in hospitals or at home . There is considerable agitation for widespread use of a "demise pill" . Realatives often want this so that they can get the property etc.
Terminal illness: An irreversible condition that in the near future will result in death or a state of permanent unconsciousness from which you are unlikely to recover. An illness you cannot be cured from that will result in death, eg ALS, cancer, MND (motor neuron diseases).
Homelessness is not an incurable disease, neither is being a Veteran that needs a chair lift. Neither of those circumstances should ever involve MAID. I support euthanasia but I also support strict guidelines so it is not being abused. We had strict guidelines in Canada until the government changed them.
Well they will have vans coming round to herd up the oldies to save money on the pensions bill now they have free reign on this devise bill totally evil
Over here in the US we have VP Musk convincing people that Mars is habitable, so yes, people will hop on the self driving Tesla buses that find them them based on their phone location because they think they’ll be going to live on Mars.
Much like telling your kids that their dead pets went to live on a farm you’ll be telling them that grandma and their fun childfree aunt went to live on Mars.
In 2020 I voted for the party of science and people and compassion, and instead I got someone with dementia telling the country it’s fine if people like me die so they can go to brunch as is their right as an amerikkkan!!
You’re right. Rump and Vance are repeating Hitler’s playbook word for word, literally and out loud. We should have taught these generations more history, not more STEM.
It remind me of the movie "Soylent Green" which I found horrific but that was apparently silly of me . Why is deliberate murder (not mercy killing!) of the 'useless' not evil ?
Why is the "left" so against assisted dying? I watched my compus mentis mother suffer endlessly in the last month of her life and she was begging to be put to sleep. Yes, safeguards must be in place mediated by dedicated professionals, but for goodness sake, why such ridiculous polarisation? Is it just because we need to be seen being against everything that comes out of the houses of parliament?
Appalling government behaviour and the concept of assisted dying are two different things. The case of my mother did not involve any government, just compassion. As I said, it requires professional mediation and the request coming from someone who is compus mentis. As an aside, I'm from the Netherlands, a country that allows controlled assisted dying without issue. The idea I'd have to slope off to Switzerland if I was confronted with this is also appalling.
"There’s a 7-fold unexplained variation in rates of euthanasia across The Netherlands, reveals an analysis of health insurance claims data, published online in the journal BMJ Supportive & Palliative Care. It’s not clear if these differences relate to underuse, overuse, or even misuse, say the researchers."
Part of the debate evidence quoted that post-Covid, some 6% of all euthanasia deaths are mentally ill people in the Netherlands? I don't know how true this is. But in The Netherlands, the latest official report indicated that there were 7666 assisted deaths in 2021, including 115 for a mental disorder. (Regional Euthanasia Review Committees – RTE. Annual Report 2021. RTE, 2022.Google Scholar) - how can that be right?
For the record, as a carer with disabilities myself, and having experienced the worst of the NHS these past 15 years, I absolutely have no faith that palliative care would ever be afforded to myself or my son, who is severely disabled with autism. I support the legislation because the alternatives for the poorest disabled and chronically sick in England certainly, are dire. Far too often, denied access to adequate medical care in the guise of 'austerity rationing' and the appalling racist and classist 'QALY' worthiness assessments; the least we should be allowed is dignity in a good death.
Dignity in dying, however, is a luxury afforded to far too few these days. Even this Right to assisted dying will no doubt become yet another 'wealth tax', I fear, as the proposed safeguards - it has to be signed off by two doctors and a judge - will probably be denied the poorest as they are not eligible for legal aid.
So yeah, this 'Lefty opposition' is complex, but valid, Thomas.
But your words say it,it's about YOU. You felt distressed,disturbed,in turmoil at your Mums suffering. So many people say what you have said but changing laws in order to remove the observation of suffering from our lives is not the answer. And it's being used by others for nefarious purposes. Plus the supposed "peaceful" death is not painless,and it won't be free either. There will be a bill to pay. The neccesary chemicals are expensive. Who's paying?
Sorry, but this is a calous response. It was not about me, it was about my mother and her severe pain. And to talk about cost!! FFS, Nursing care and medication probably cost more. And if money is the objection, that's Capitalism in a nut shell.
Of all the subjects the media has to focus on. Euthanasia must be the greatest; to reward the oligarchs with more tax cuts. Just imagine how many old, sick, unemployable dissidents and homeless people could be recycled and turned into nutritious protein bars. No need to subsidise farmers, either as automated food production and cybernetics put people out of work. No more unions to start a revolution and the double whammy of tax and spend is defeated by ending wage slavery and the middle class!
Yes. I enjoyed that movie, even though Charlatan Heston is a dick for supporting the gun lobby. Can’t help wondering how he would defend the arming of psychopaths, criminals, drug dealers, proud boys, oath keepers, loonie Trump cultists and neonazis with military grade weapons? And of course it they always the blame immigrants for crime, the mentally ill for mass shootings and Muslims for acts of terror!
And our institutions are completely ready to take up the responsibility of explaining to burdensome people how they can end their personal tragedy and the tragedy they inflict on national productivity by agreeing to one simple procedure while listening to their favourite tunes on Spotify. And if they're too disabled to understand why they should agree a caring professional can be granted power of attorney to agree on their behalf.
When Germany passed euthanasia legislation in the early 20th century it was initially feared the wimpy Wiemar culture would leave it idling on the books forever. But when a dynamic New German uberculture replaced it the medical system was quick to start relieving the suffering of small children who were too naive to even realise how disabled they were.
Of course the 'slippery slope' argument is a fallacy, so it was up to the humanitarian professionals in German psychiatry to take the initiative in extending the benefits to burdensome adults they were unable to cure. Even Alfred Hoche, the psychiatrist who laid out the 'life unworthy of life' principles underlying the program way back in 1922, was so enthused with its success that he too opted to relieve his own suffering when one of his mildly disabled family members was chosen for the program.
It wasn't long until the visionary leadership of Germany saw that what had become known as "wlld euthanasia" could also be used to relieve the Reich of burdensome people who were disabled by diseases of race, religion or political conviction, greatly improving national efficiency during a time of huge challenges.
I can see no reason we shouldn't follow the inspiring example set by Germany in the 1930s and 40s.
“The law was expanded in 2022 to people living with debilitating disabilities or pain, even if their lives aren’t at immediate risk.”
This is what I worry about in the US. Yes I want people to be able to choose how to exit this world if they have decided it’s time.
But not too long ago it was almost impossible to get pain medication for chronic pain and I don’t think people should have to die when 5 mg of oxycodone can help them live their life, but doctors aren’t allowed to give it to them because other people abuse medication. And I’m afraid we’re going to go back to that with weirdos like Dr. Oz in charge of Medicare.
For example, in case anyone thinks I’m exaggerating, back in 2019 I had to quit the pain management provider I had been singing and find someone new because every time I went to her office a different PA was trying to force me to switch from 5 mg oxycodone to fentanyl patches. And I wasn’t complaining that the medication wasn’t working or anything, it was fine I was just there for a refill. It was insane and it made me fear for my life for real. And I didn’t even complain to the board of medicine or anything because I don’t want other people to not be able to get meds, I didn’t want her office to get in trouble and for people to lose access. But it was not ok.
Exactly! And the fact that there is a political class that will happily take full advantage of people who feel that way is especially sickening. It's not too much to want a world where everyone knows they are worthy of love, care and positive regard (except the leach class of society of course).
While I can understand that the mattress is not available for the ER. Why was he in the ER for 4 days? My mother needed one, diabetic... I walked in her room and immediately said something about her not having one. A nurse has a strange look pass over her face. And my mother had one in 1/2 hr.
I had a friend get a bedsore on his tailbone. It was gastly. Bigger across than a grapefruit and down to the bone. Nurses winced upon seeing it. It developed in minutes from pressure. And horrible smell.
Oh those bean counters. Of those Dickensians. Oh those illnesses and diseases. Oh Klanada. Oh Switzerland. You got depression and constant suicidal thoughts? The Swiss and Klanadians will help you do yourself in.
Levels of medical coverage? In the USA the Frankenstein system will put that ailment and chronic illness and disease and pain on a payout scale and determine your worth.
It's always been that, no? Bhopal and the payout is a thousand bucks per murdered soul. But if you got Peter Thiel behind you. Hulk Hogan gets millions and Gawker goes bye for those darn sex tapes.
The Value of Nothing.
Read it. By Patel.
Children? Shit dawg, what a burden. Just two years of disposable nappies will take down a few tens of millions of trees. And the schools? Shit what a burden .
In Britain,Scotland excepted so far,it looks like we are going to get the Poundland version. And that last meal won't be the Swiss champagne + caviar they tell us about,it'll be a tepid MaccyD's by Deliveroo. When 70% of the UK population get what they think they want they wont want it any more.
The bill is not about benefits or savings it’s about dying with dignity. If you’ve never had a member of your family who has died without dignity, thank your luck. I’m of the left, real left not labour, this bill was opposed by most tories, why was that? The levels of hyperbole by left and right has been unprecedented. The majority of the country supports it, your attempt to patronise it is not warranted, needed or necessary. Stick to facts not propaganda.
I don’t think fit for work assessments are warranted, but that’s a different issue altogether. Struggling with your argument? I’m for this bill after seeing my 54 year old sister in nappies unable to control bladder or bowels, in absolute pain with the morphine not touching it. Do I feel strongly about this yes! Do I appreciate being accused of being some sort of natzi? No.
All my family that have passed did so peacefully because they were all good people and had nothing to fear. I am going to be the exception there. Maybe you could read some of the philosopher Nietsche,he has some very perceptive things to say on the use of COMPASSION to enforce illiberal oppression on societies.
Your experience is not mine and certainly not my sisters. The bill is a bill, it has to go through committee, the lords then parliament again. Your argument is not fact its seems to mainly based on your experience. I have several chronic illnesses, I deal with medics all the time and have been treated badly by a vey few, they are humans and can have off days too. I appreciate your bad experiences but don’t feel free to insult me and put motive in my support for this bill, I know why I support it you differ but you have no moral or other high ground to stand on and look down on others.
Gratuitous insult, why we are a bit fragile what was it? You’re accusing me of either being a natzi or an imbecile, it’s implicit in your argument but I’m insulting you, if I am sick it up.
Why thank you, I will take that as a compliment. One I did not expect from someone with the same beliefs as Ian Duncan Smoth, Esther Mey, Jacob Rees Moggs and of course Boris Johnson, the people who partied while others died during Covid.
I can talk from a Canadian perspective and say that allowing assisted dying without also having a basic livable income is monstrous.
It turns into a law that benefits the rich and predates on the poor and disabled. Many people here have chosen death instead of living in a system that has abandoned them. With high rents and low disability payments, they are forced to live on the streets. Or they are forced to choose between medication or food.
Granted, UK weather isn’t as cruel, we have summer days over 30 and winter nights under -30, but if you don’t provide the basics of a dignified life for people who are unable to work for it, they will choose a dignified death.
We don’t have medication costs but rent is high and benefits and state pensions are low. The Canadian system is not in any way shape or form like the, proposed UK system as there is judicial review. That means that the person’s rights are protected and the process is aligned with the law. If you are against it on religious grounds you should be explicit about it, I don’t know why posters are not. It’s a valid ground to oppose but if you’re not explicit you are not honest.
I completely agree Bruce. I am really surprised by the outrage surrounding this bill in the UK. Here in Australia it was welcomed by people who felt they did not have to linger in pain for months or years. They, after all the checks and balances, could end their life with dignity.
Thanks, there seems to be a level of paranoia about this bill from the religious community, that includes the right but also the some version of the left. The Conservative Party voted, mostly, against and the paranoid left are in the same bed with the loony right.
Doctors are there to kill not to cure seems to be your argument, what do you do when you are ill? My god the level of arrogance in your argument is unbelievable.
A compelling argument! Right up there with Swift's A Modest Proposal....But since Starmer seems to want a nuclear war with Russia, it may be unnecessary to kill useless eaters one by one, when war can kill them all at once....
Bang on Laura! I think HART UK tells us about the reality of 'assisted dying', but state-sanctioned murder would be a more accurate description:
"Oregon’s assisted dying model, often held as an example of successful legislation, exposes the harrowing reality of euthanasia. Firstly, recent deaths have included people whose only reason was anorexia, arthritis or “complications from a fall”. The average time from ingestion of lethal drugs to death is over four hours, but some cases extend into eight or more hours. People have suffered through convulsions, vomiting, or even waking from comas. In one horrifying incident, a malfunctioning "death pod" left a woman strangled to death by her caregiver in a desperate and brutal attempt to complete the act. "
Interesting, I would suggest euthanasia to starmer and to his crew, think about how much money and lives could be saved with such a true patriot act.
Hahaha love it 😅
I would imagine stammer is already clinically dead, or the max headroom binary system has language and speech impediments
How about getting poor people to nominate rich people for involuntary euthanasia ? Then you could get real money to restart the economy and save on supporting the truly workshy !
Reminiscent of the Venetian 'Mouth of Truth' into which anonymous notes condemning others could be posted for the Doge's henchmen to deal with! No different from Starmer threatening anyone signing a petition...we're getting there! Your suggestion of turning it back on itself is great. Now we have to find a legion of executioners!
Very good substitution for the 'Elites'. The 'Truly Workshy'. It has the recognised imprimatur of 'Ah Bless'. Who would mind an appellation combining True and Work?
Good point !
Just nominate all the bankers, that ought to do it....
Chuck Palahniuk wrote a book called Adjustment Day, it was a way to purge the excess of angry men and also “the swamp”. They would publish a list where people could add names and people voted on who needed to be purged. You would be rewarded with a government position if you got enough high ranking trophies (they took ears I think?)
The brainwashing, and the segregation, and the weird forced breeding and trading of people was really bad. But the list, and the voting on the list part, I could get behind that as long as marginalized people were never allowed to be added to the list.
As an avid reader of sci-fi I am surprised I haven't already read it ! Yes I could imagine some interesting debates about the list . The idea of killing off excess people turns up a lot in sci-fi but I have often been worried about how they were chosen eg in one US film it was noticeable that everyone was WASP to begin with so where were all the servants ? No visible robots .
Like a lottery where we pay a quid and choose the oligarch to die, the one with the highest amount gets bumped off on 6oclock news 👏
What would then happen I think is the rich one would bribe a poor person saying "take my place and I will give money to your family and they'll have a better ife", or words to that effect.
Yeah - only too likely !
They are already killing people in NHS hospitals, and have been for a long time. This will legalise that practice.. It really has FK all to do with terminally ill people - that is the foot in the door. If they cared remotely at all they'd have done it decades ago - numerous people with cancer and motor neurone disease have gone to court over the right to die AND BEEN DENIED. THIS is a eugenics bill, pure and simple, aimed ultimately at killing the 'economically unviable' = anyone older, disabled, poor, homeless, mentally ill.. Just look at what Canada is doing. Same model.
I have cancer and was given 6 months to live ten years ago. This bill frightens the rest of the life out of me.
❤️ Thank you for sharing this! I know and have heard of many such people. We can’t know the future. These laws allow people to kill themselves out of fear, not out of pain.
All the best
Fuckers killed my Dad
Oh, God, I am so sorry. It is absolutely heartbreaking and it's happening to SO many people, and not all of them old. And it is absolutely deliberate. Have you come across Jacqui Deevoy? They did the same to her dad. She is a journalist and she has connected with a lot of people in the same situation as you and is makng a fuss. She is on twitter and also on substack.
Haven't heard of her, my Dad died from neglect after the Covid vaccine injection give him myocarditis and he had a small heart attack, he was released from the first hospitals heart unit after they found nothing, GP picked up blood reading straight away Sent to different hospital who didn't monitor him allowed him to fall in shower so he got a abscess on his spine, their incompetence went on and on eventually the infections they give him killed him, first time doctor arrived was to ask him to sign a do not resuscitate form, a big scam. I tried to get a solicitor to do something but it's all about money not justice
I am so glad someone is doing something about this . My mother was a doctor and got furious with patients' families who wanted her to give a parent "something" . She used to tell them that she was a doctor and not an executioner . I wondered if some people did not know that all human beings die ? It is disturbing if people do not understand that death is natural , not something that has to happen in a hospital otherwise.... people don't properly die.......?
Back in 2009 in the US we had a political party convincing people that rather than use the healthcare that will be available to them through the ACA the true patriotic thing to do is to refuse to use those “welfare benefits” and just go quietly die instead.
We have a few states that offer help with a compassionate exit, but for the most part the people chose deaths of despair. Here in illmerica people die on the freeway, they die from reckless use of substances, there’s a lot of family annihilation with self deletion, or just quiet self deletion.
And it’s not surprising, we are drowning in messaging that tells us that money is more important than anything else including time with our loved ones, and for the past 4 years we have been told that if we have any kind of chronic illness it’s fine to infect us with a deadly virus because it’s just getting us to jesus faster, which is cause for celebration.
My elderly, disabled mom chose to leave in 2019 when she only had $20 left over after paying for housing and transportation and she was only getting $16 a month in food assistance. She asked for help more than anyone I have ever met, and as a matter of fact she went to the emergency room and told them she was not OK. They kept her for a couple days and then her doctor decided that she didn’t really mean it so he sent her home. She was a bad ass who handled it herself, but my brothers and I would have a lot less trauma if we could have been with her while she was comfortable in her own bed.
Sorry, I am just furious. I worked and paid into the system for 25 years before I became disabled in an accident and I almost didn’t survive the years of homelessness and zero income before I was finally approved for disability by the SSA I have been paying into for 25 years. It’s on purpose. They want you to lose everything so rich people can snatch up your stuff at foreclosure sales.
Canada has a euthanasia bill called MAID. It is a disaster. Anyone can apply and use. A female veteran was offered MAID because she wanted a chair lift in her house. In 2022, there were 13,241 MAID provisions reported in Canada, accounting for 4.1% of all deaths in Canada. The number of cases of MAID in 2022 represents a growth rate of 31.2% over 2021. Those numbers are from a government publication. I believe people should be able to die if they are terminal. We should be giving the power back to the people so they can make the choice not their illness. Canadians can receive MAID for a “grievous and irremediable” condition, even when natural death isn’t imminent. Instead of fixing our problems the government will let you die.
But what exactly is terminal. I was given 6 months to live ten years ago.
Exactly. Medicine is an "art" at times and not a science. Playing God can lead to all sorts of mistakes. Best to let nature take its course, IMO.
Exactly ! According to my doctor mother that happens all the time . In fact is it said to encourage suicide ? Here in the UK they worry about having too many old people ie "economically inactive" and "a drain on the economy" . Interestingly it is largely Asian doctors who look after them whether in hospitals or at home . There is considerable agitation for widespread use of a "demise pill" . Realatives often want this so that they can get the property etc.
Terminal illness: An irreversible condition that in the near future will result in death or a state of permanent unconsciousness from which you are unlikely to recover. An illness you cannot be cured from that will result in death, eg ALS, cancer, MND (motor neuron diseases).
Homelessness is not an incurable disease, neither is being a Veteran that needs a chair lift. Neither of those circumstances should ever involve MAID. I support euthanasia but I also support strict guidelines so it is not being abused. We had strict guidelines in Canada until the government changed them.
Well they will have vans coming round to herd up the oldies to save money on the pensions bill now they have free reign on this devise bill totally evil
Over here in the US we have VP Musk convincing people that Mars is habitable, so yes, people will hop on the self driving Tesla buses that find them them based on their phone location because they think they’ll be going to live on Mars.
Much like telling your kids that their dead pets went to live on a farm you’ll be telling them that grandma and their fun childfree aunt went to live on Mars.
Well it will be an updated version of the 1930’s history always repeats its self
I know, it’s horrifying.
In 2020 I voted for the party of science and people and compassion, and instead I got someone with dementia telling the country it’s fine if people like me die so they can go to brunch as is their right as an amerikkkan!!
You’re right. Rump and Vance are repeating Hitler’s playbook word for word, literally and out loud. We should have taught these generations more history, not more STEM.
Trouble is the older generation remembers there’s a whole new world who likes to sweep it under the carpet shame on them
It remind me of the movie "Soylent Green" which I found horrific but that was apparently silly of me . Why is deliberate murder (not mercy killing!) of the 'useless' not evil ?
Why is the "left" so against assisted dying? I watched my compus mentis mother suffer endlessly in the last month of her life and she was begging to be put to sleep. Yes, safeguards must be in place mediated by dedicated professionals, but for goodness sake, why such ridiculous polarisation? Is it just because we need to be seen being against everything that comes out of the houses of parliament?
Because Tom, the UK government has an appalling history of taking lives in the guise of palliative care - remember the Liverpool Care pathway scandal?
Appalling government behaviour and the concept of assisted dying are two different things. The case of my mother did not involve any government, just compassion. As I said, it requires professional mediation and the request coming from someone who is compus mentis. As an aside, I'm from the Netherlands, a country that allows controlled assisted dying without issue. The idea I'd have to slope off to Switzerland if I was confronted with this is also appalling.
From the BMJ (pre-Covid) 2021
"There’s a 7-fold unexplained variation in rates of euthanasia across The Netherlands, reveals an analysis of health insurance claims data, published online in the journal BMJ Supportive & Palliative Care. It’s not clear if these differences relate to underuse, overuse, or even misuse, say the researchers."
https://blogs.bmj.com/spcare/2021/01/15/unexplained-7-fold-variation-in-euthanasia-rates-across-the-netherlands/
Part of the debate evidence quoted that post-Covid, some 6% of all euthanasia deaths are mentally ill people in the Netherlands? I don't know how true this is. But in The Netherlands, the latest official report indicated that there were 7666 assisted deaths in 2021, including 115 for a mental disorder. (Regional Euthanasia Review Committees – RTE. Annual Report 2021. RTE, 2022.Google Scholar) - how can that be right?
For the record, as a carer with disabilities myself, and having experienced the worst of the NHS these past 15 years, I absolutely have no faith that palliative care would ever be afforded to myself or my son, who is severely disabled with autism. I support the legislation because the alternatives for the poorest disabled and chronically sick in England certainly, are dire. Far too often, denied access to adequate medical care in the guise of 'austerity rationing' and the appalling racist and classist 'QALY' worthiness assessments; the least we should be allowed is dignity in a good death.
https://www.nice.org.uk/process/pmg6/chapter/assessing-cost-effectiveness
Dignity in dying, however, is a luxury afforded to far too few these days. Even this Right to assisted dying will no doubt become yet another 'wealth tax', I fear, as the proposed safeguards - it has to be signed off by two doctors and a judge - will probably be denied the poorest as they are not eligible for legal aid.
So yeah, this 'Lefty opposition' is complex, but valid, Thomas.
But your words say it,it's about YOU. You felt distressed,disturbed,in turmoil at your Mums suffering. So many people say what you have said but changing laws in order to remove the observation of suffering from our lives is not the answer. And it's being used by others for nefarious purposes. Plus the supposed "peaceful" death is not painless,and it won't be free either. There will be a bill to pay. The neccesary chemicals are expensive. Who's paying?
Sorry, but this is a calous response. It was not about me, it was about my mother and her severe pain. And to talk about cost!! FFS, Nursing care and medication probably cost more. And if money is the objection, that's Capitalism in a nut shell.
Of all the subjects the media has to focus on. Euthanasia must be the greatest; to reward the oligarchs with more tax cuts. Just imagine how many old, sick, unemployable dissidents and homeless people could be recycled and turned into nutritious protein bars. No need to subsidise farmers, either as automated food production and cybernetics put people out of work. No more unions to start a revolution and the double whammy of tax and spend is defeated by ending wage slavery and the middle class!
Soylent Green
Yes. I enjoyed that movie, even though Charlatan Heston is a dick for supporting the gun lobby. Can’t help wondering how he would defend the arming of psychopaths, criminals, drug dealers, proud boys, oath keepers, loonie Trump cultists and neonazis with military grade weapons? And of course it they always the blame immigrants for crime, the mentally ill for mass shootings and Muslims for acts of terror!
Yes it’s a good movie but his performance was over the top. Charlatan! Great description.
And our institutions are completely ready to take up the responsibility of explaining to burdensome people how they can end their personal tragedy and the tragedy they inflict on national productivity by agreeing to one simple procedure while listening to their favourite tunes on Spotify. And if they're too disabled to understand why they should agree a caring professional can be granted power of attorney to agree on their behalf.
When Germany passed euthanasia legislation in the early 20th century it was initially feared the wimpy Wiemar culture would leave it idling on the books forever. But when a dynamic New German uberculture replaced it the medical system was quick to start relieving the suffering of small children who were too naive to even realise how disabled they were.
Of course the 'slippery slope' argument is a fallacy, so it was up to the humanitarian professionals in German psychiatry to take the initiative in extending the benefits to burdensome adults they were unable to cure. Even Alfred Hoche, the psychiatrist who laid out the 'life unworthy of life' principles underlying the program way back in 1922, was so enthused with its success that he too opted to relieve his own suffering when one of his mildly disabled family members was chosen for the program.
It wasn't long until the visionary leadership of Germany saw that what had become known as "wlld euthanasia" could also be used to relieve the Reich of burdensome people who were disabled by diseases of race, religion or political conviction, greatly improving national efficiency during a time of huge challenges.
I can see no reason we shouldn't follow the inspiring example set by Germany in the 1930s and 40s.
What could possibly go wrong?
Here in the US, we’re on our way.
Some other examples to stir our imaginations on the potential wonders in store for us: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/christine-gauthier-paralympian-euthanasia-canada-b2238319.html
“The law was expanded in 2022 to people living with debilitating disabilities or pain, even if their lives aren’t at immediate risk.”
This is what I worry about in the US. Yes I want people to be able to choose how to exit this world if they have decided it’s time.
But not too long ago it was almost impossible to get pain medication for chronic pain and I don’t think people should have to die when 5 mg of oxycodone can help them live their life, but doctors aren’t allowed to give it to them because other people abuse medication. And I’m afraid we’re going to go back to that with weirdos like Dr. Oz in charge of Medicare.
For example, in case anyone thinks I’m exaggerating, back in 2019 I had to quit the pain management provider I had been singing and find someone new because every time I went to her office a different PA was trying to force me to switch from 5 mg oxycodone to fentanyl patches. And I wasn’t complaining that the medication wasn’t working or anything, it was fine I was just there for a refill. It was insane and it made me fear for my life for real. And I didn’t even complain to the board of medicine or anything because I don’t want other people to not be able to get meds, I didn’t want her office to get in trouble and for people to lose access. But it was not ok.
And this one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/assisted-death-quadriplegic-quebec-man-er-bed-sore-1.7171209
The tragic and telling part of this article is his words, “I don’t want to be a burden.” We are a disgraceful society that makes anyone feel that way.
Exactly! And the fact that there is a political class that will happily take full advantage of people who feel that way is especially sickening. It's not too much to want a world where everyone knows they are worthy of love, care and positive regard (except the leach class of society of course).
The leach class will never be convinced that they’re not worthy, I’m afraid.
While I can understand that the mattress is not available for the ER. Why was he in the ER for 4 days? My mother needed one, diabetic... I walked in her room and immediately said something about her not having one. A nurse has a strange look pass over her face. And my mother had one in 1/2 hr.
I had a friend get a bedsore on his tailbone. It was gastly. Bigger across than a grapefruit and down to the bone. Nurses winced upon seeing it. It developed in minutes from pressure. And horrible smell.
Oh those bean counters. Of those Dickensians. Oh those illnesses and diseases. Oh Klanada. Oh Switzerland. You got depression and constant suicidal thoughts? The Swiss and Klanadians will help you do yourself in.
Levels of medical coverage? In the USA the Frankenstein system will put that ailment and chronic illness and disease and pain on a payout scale and determine your worth.
It's always been that, no? Bhopal and the payout is a thousand bucks per murdered soul. But if you got Peter Thiel behind you. Hulk Hogan gets millions and Gawker goes bye for those darn sex tapes.
The Value of Nothing.
Read it. By Patel.
Children? Shit dawg, what a burden. Just two years of disposable nappies will take down a few tens of millions of trees. And the schools? Shit what a burden .
Soylent green anyone?
In Britain,Scotland excepted so far,it looks like we are going to get the Poundland version. And that last meal won't be the Swiss champagne + caviar they tell us about,it'll be a tepid MaccyD's by Deliveroo. When 70% of the UK population get what they think they want they wont want it any more.
The 6 months thing is a silly concession as a compromise
The bill is not about benefits or savings it’s about dying with dignity. If you’ve never had a member of your family who has died without dignity, thank your luck. I’m of the left, real left not labour, this bill was opposed by most tories, why was that? The levels of hyperbole by left and right has been unprecedented. The majority of the country supports it, your attempt to patronise it is not warranted, needed or necessary. Stick to facts not propaganda.
and fit for work assessments are about helping disabled people x
I don’t think fit for work assessments are warranted, but that’s a different issue altogether. Struggling with your argument? I’m for this bill after seeing my 54 year old sister in nappies unable to control bladder or bowels, in absolute pain with the morphine not touching it. Do I feel strongly about this yes! Do I appreciate being accused of being some sort of natzi? No.
I admire your trust in the government, sweetie x
I’m not that sweet. You may believe your bullshit I’m yet to be persuaded. I did somewhat enjoy your content but if your so wrong about this?
How can there be anyone left with that kind of wilfully blind trust?
All my family that have passed did so peacefully because they were all good people and had nothing to fear. I am going to be the exception there. Maybe you could read some of the philosopher Nietsche,he has some very perceptive things to say on the use of COMPASSION to enforce illiberal oppression on societies.
‘One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.’
Your experience is not mine and certainly not my sisters. The bill is a bill, it has to go through committee, the lords then parliament again. Your argument is not fact its seems to mainly based on your experience. I have several chronic illnesses, I deal with medics all the time and have been treated badly by a vey few, they are humans and can have off days too. I appreciate your bad experiences but don’t feel free to insult me and put motive in my support for this bill, I know why I support it you differ but you have no moral or other high ground to stand on and look down on others.
Gratuitous insult, why we are a bit fragile what was it? You’re accusing me of either being a natzi or an imbecile, it’s implicit in your argument but I’m insulting you, if I am sick it up.
Why thank you, I will take that as a compliment. One I did not expect from someone with the same beliefs as Ian Duncan Smoth, Esther Mey, Jacob Rees Moggs and of course Boris Johnson, the people who partied while others died during Covid.
I can talk from a Canadian perspective and say that allowing assisted dying without also having a basic livable income is monstrous.
It turns into a law that benefits the rich and predates on the poor and disabled. Many people here have chosen death instead of living in a system that has abandoned them. With high rents and low disability payments, they are forced to live on the streets. Or they are forced to choose between medication or food.
Granted, UK weather isn’t as cruel, we have summer days over 30 and winter nights under -30, but if you don’t provide the basics of a dignified life for people who are unable to work for it, they will choose a dignified death.
We don’t have medication costs but rent is high and benefits and state pensions are low. The Canadian system is not in any way shape or form like the, proposed UK system as there is judicial review. That means that the person’s rights are protected and the process is aligned with the law. If you are against it on religious grounds you should be explicit about it, I don’t know why posters are not. It’s a valid ground to oppose but if you’re not explicit you are not honest.
I completely agree Bruce. I am really surprised by the outrage surrounding this bill in the UK. Here in Australia it was welcomed by people who felt they did not have to linger in pain for months or years. They, after all the checks and balances, could end their life with dignity.
Thanks, there seems to be a level of paranoia about this bill from the religious community, that includes the right but also the some version of the left. The Conservative Party voted, mostly, against and the paranoid left are in the same bed with the loony right.
All political activities are just content to be monetised I suppose.
Doctors are there to kill not to cure seems to be your argument, what do you do when you are ill? My god the level of arrogance in your argument is unbelievable.
Ian Duncan Smith, Esther McVey and Jacob Rees Moggs that’s the company you’re keeping these days and I’m the patsy?
A compelling argument! Right up there with Swift's A Modest Proposal....But since Starmer seems to want a nuclear war with Russia, it may be unnecessary to kill useless eaters one by one, when war can kill them all at once....
Bang on Laura! I think HART UK tells us about the reality of 'assisted dying', but state-sanctioned murder would be a more accurate description:
"Oregon’s assisted dying model, often held as an example of successful legislation, exposes the harrowing reality of euthanasia. Firstly, recent deaths have included people whose only reason was anorexia, arthritis or “complications from a fall”. The average time from ingestion of lethal drugs to death is over four hours, but some cases extend into eight or more hours. People have suffered through convulsions, vomiting, or even waking from comas. In one horrifying incident, a malfunctioning "death pod" left a woman strangled to death by her caregiver in a desperate and brutal attempt to complete the act. "
'The Assisted Dying Bill in the UK'
https://hartuk.substack.com/p/the-assisted-dying-bill-in-the-uk
this new law is a new low, they call it compassion, I call it cynical