Britain gives state funerals to dunces and barbarians and what do compassionate souls get? Naught but scorn and mockery from the state! Or worse, imprisonment!
A tragic reminder that nationalism is the only ideology willing to die for a lamp post.
He gave his life so a piece of fabric could flap angrily at the sky, and honestly that might be the most coherent policy platform some folks have had in years.
I understand the correct way to make trains run on time now is to paint them with a Union Jack.
I hope this excellent strategy will be employed on all other failing sectors of UK society and look forward to seeing red, white and blue painted on hospitals, schools and Rachel Reeves's calculator.
A wonderful idea, although I must append that Mussolini never got the Italian trains to run on time. There WERE some slight improvements early during his reign, although these were the result of policies implemented before he took power. However, the fascisti used the notion for propaganda purposes, and wealthy Brits spread the myth...
Yes! I remember reading some time ago, and later having it confirmed by an History lecturer who was from Southern Italy and whose father had been a locomotive engineer on the Italian Railways during WW2 that they were actually made to run more efficiently - improvements in permanent way, signalling, locos, rolling stock etc - after the post-Caporetto retreat.
The restructuring and rearmament of the Royal Italian Army, along with the insertion of several allied units, necessitated a hell of a lot of logistical expansion and modernisation. The offensive that followed led to the great military victory over the Central Powers known as the Battle of Vittorio Veneto.
So, yes, Mussolini and his dodgy mates took the credit for an efficiency uptick that had already been put in place as a result of military expediency.
Their allies, France and Britain in particular, may well have fronted the cash for the necessary logistical improvements but I'm going to have to go and research that properly!
You are correct, Jonathan. << after the post-Caporetto retreat. >> For the benefit of those unfamiliar with World War One history, the Battle of Caporetto was a bloodbath. After the Czar had been overthrown (1917), the "Eastern Front" was effectively neutralized, and the Central Powers wanted to knock the Italians out of the war, securing the southern arena as well. The Austrians and Germans demolished much of the Italian army, with the remainder beating a hasty retreat.
The Battle of Vittorio Veneto, with brutal campaigns at the Piave River, occurred during the last days of the war (late October-early November 1918). This time the Italians prevailed, and the Austrians took brutal losses. A cousin of my father's fought in this campaign.
The English (and to a lesser extent, the French) played some bizarre games during the 1930s. The prevailing sentiment was that the "greater danger" was from "Bolshevicism" and Russia. Thus, for example, they did not lift a finger when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935, and (as we know) with the Anschluss and even the subsequent annexation of most of Czechoslovakia (1938). In fact, capitalist interests were quite convinced they could "do business" with Hitler and Mussolini.
Note that Prescott Bush -- father of Bush 41 and grandfather of "Dubbya" Bush 43 -- was among those financing the Third Reich! Capitalism and fascism have long engaged in peaceful coexistence (at least until the wars broke out).
I actually discuss much of the "behind-the-scenes" maneuvering with the British in my novel, SIMONE: A SEQUEL TO *THE STORY OF THE EYE*, which also gives a graphic look at what went on in the prisons of Italy and Spain during the fascist eras...
Historians have to try to interpret that which they are studying from the perspectives and contexts of those who were there at the time. So, primary source documents etc are the absolute mutts' nuts but we must be bearing in mind that all sources are tainted to a greater or lesser extent!
Memoirs in particular are prone to being 'reinterpreted in the light of subsequent events'!
Most of us view the past - what we may refer to as history - through a teleological 'lens', we judge past actors on what we know DID happen rather than what they believed may happen.
Gaps in knowledge or documentation can cause serious problems, the use of Nationalistic bigotry and pejorative stereotypes, usually by our glorious leaders who really should know better, are always hedges (or even a fortress profile) an Historian has to bash his way through just to present his thesis and scholarship to the comparatively less informed: that's most of us! The public fortunately are not as thick as our glorious leaders would like to believe!
Metaphorically 'Storming the Bastions of privilege' is often performed by the comparatively privileged (by dint of access to the education and the evidence necessary for the 'assaults') against those who currently wield or who have held executive power.
A contentious area, n'est-ce pas?!
And don't get me started on the wide church that constitutes the genre 'Conspiracy Theories'!
Politicians tend to hate or discount Historians.
Why?
Because we know that there are no new tricks, just new toys. Their chicanery and Sleights of hand are obvious to us because we know that's how their game works, their necessary go-to, their tool-kits and skill-sets.
In return, Historians tend to have a healthy dislike and distrust of authority figures.
Because we know.
We may find some of them more sympathetic than others, certainly, but that should never detract from our pulling them up when we detect poor judgement, corrupt decisions, accidents waiting to happen or, to use Barbara Tuchman's thesis 'Folly': deliberately carrying on demonstrably failing policies in the hope that it'll work this time!
I have read novels in the past, fictionalised history or, rather, human interest stories, that meander around areas of history that are a jump down from the actions - or fictions! - purportedly performed by the Great and the Good.
The history is messier and nastier, certainly less binary.
As it is at most levels in real life!
But the fictional dimension gives room to explore the impact of all too often sanitised Great Events upon us ordinary people.
And hint at elements of the story that are still locked away inside those files in boxes on shelves in archives all over the world!
A statue at least, but I would argue the expense would be easily justified to mount statues of the brave sod on every lampost in London in the instant before his tragic death. And should a worker fall to their death performing this theatre, well, mon dieu, life imitating art imitating . . that other thing. Imagine trying to live on an island where you had to make this stuff up?!
OK, I'm gonna be That Guy, I'm afraid. Yeah, the guy was a dick, but this is really sad. What a thing to devote your life to,and what a stupid way to die. I feel for his missus, family and friends. Now watch Tommy Ten-Names and Fartage - the scum who persuade the gullible to do this sort of thing - get as much publicity as they can out of it.
Maybe, but a waste of a life i always sad, whoever it is. I can't work up any enthusiasm for laughing at him, doesn't help a damn thing as far as I can see.
I’m picturing a new UK flag - one composed of symbols and colors of all the places and cultures that the British Empire raided to make up the best aspects, the products and people and ideas, of a still-beautiful country. I’ll risk my neck to climb a ladder and fly that one everywhere.
There's a more effective way to mark your territory: poop in every corner and house. But that's something the BBC and similar media outlets already do.
🎶I fought the floor
And the, floor won🎶
🎶Turns out gravity has a strict no-flags-on-ladders policy🎶
The floor remains undefeated, unpatriotic, and brutally consistent.
Thank you and Laura for the laughs! -_-()
Hahaha .........clever 😆
Greetings from Hamburg
your Anthony
Britain gives state funerals to dunces and barbarians and what do compassionate souls get? Naught but scorn and mockery from the state! Or worse, imprisonment!
...And titles like 'Sir'.
All the Plantagenet descendants around the world are aggrieved.
I think I'd rather have the Naught!
I probably shouldn’t find it amusing that his last name was “Lumber”, as in “Dropped like a load of…”, but because I am a bad person, I do.
A tragic reminder that nationalism is the only ideology willing to die for a lamp post.
He gave his life so a piece of fabric could flap angrily at the sky, and honestly that might be the most coherent policy platform some folks have had in years.
I understand the correct way to make trains run on time now is to paint them with a Union Jack.
I hope this excellent strategy will be employed on all other failing sectors of UK society and look forward to seeing red, white and blue painted on hospitals, schools and Rachel Reeves's calculator.
A wonderful idea, although I must append that Mussolini never got the Italian trains to run on time. There WERE some slight improvements early during his reign, although these were the result of policies implemented before he took power. However, the fascisti used the notion for propaganda purposes, and wealthy Brits spread the myth...
Wait! Fascists lied and took credit for measures taken by others? I'm certain that never happened again!
Yes! I remember reading some time ago, and later having it confirmed by an History lecturer who was from Southern Italy and whose father had been a locomotive engineer on the Italian Railways during WW2 that they were actually made to run more efficiently - improvements in permanent way, signalling, locos, rolling stock etc - after the post-Caporetto retreat.
The restructuring and rearmament of the Royal Italian Army, along with the insertion of several allied units, necessitated a hell of a lot of logistical expansion and modernisation. The offensive that followed led to the great military victory over the Central Powers known as the Battle of Vittorio Veneto.
So, yes, Mussolini and his dodgy mates took the credit for an efficiency uptick that had already been put in place as a result of military expediency.
Their allies, France and Britain in particular, may well have fronted the cash for the necessary logistical improvements but I'm going to have to go and research that properly!
You are correct, Jonathan. << after the post-Caporetto retreat. >> For the benefit of those unfamiliar with World War One history, the Battle of Caporetto was a bloodbath. After the Czar had been overthrown (1917), the "Eastern Front" was effectively neutralized, and the Central Powers wanted to knock the Italians out of the war, securing the southern arena as well. The Austrians and Germans demolished much of the Italian army, with the remainder beating a hasty retreat.
The Battle of Vittorio Veneto, with brutal campaigns at the Piave River, occurred during the last days of the war (late October-early November 1918). This time the Italians prevailed, and the Austrians took brutal losses. A cousin of my father's fought in this campaign.
The English (and to a lesser extent, the French) played some bizarre games during the 1930s. The prevailing sentiment was that the "greater danger" was from "Bolshevicism" and Russia. Thus, for example, they did not lift a finger when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935, and (as we know) with the Anschluss and even the subsequent annexation of most of Czechoslovakia (1938). In fact, capitalist interests were quite convinced they could "do business" with Hitler and Mussolini.
Note that Prescott Bush -- father of Bush 41 and grandfather of "Dubbya" Bush 43 -- was among those financing the Third Reich! Capitalism and fascism have long engaged in peaceful coexistence (at least until the wars broke out).
I actually discuss much of the "behind-the-scenes" maneuvering with the British in my novel, SIMONE: A SEQUEL TO *THE STORY OF THE EYE*, which also gives a graphic look at what went on in the prisons of Italy and Spain during the fascist eras...
Thanks for that great and informative reply!
Your novel sounds like an engaging read!
Historians have to try to interpret that which they are studying from the perspectives and contexts of those who were there at the time. So, primary source documents etc are the absolute mutts' nuts but we must be bearing in mind that all sources are tainted to a greater or lesser extent!
Memoirs in particular are prone to being 'reinterpreted in the light of subsequent events'!
Most of us view the past - what we may refer to as history - through a teleological 'lens', we judge past actors on what we know DID happen rather than what they believed may happen.
Gaps in knowledge or documentation can cause serious problems, the use of Nationalistic bigotry and pejorative stereotypes, usually by our glorious leaders who really should know better, are always hedges (or even a fortress profile) an Historian has to bash his way through just to present his thesis and scholarship to the comparatively less informed: that's most of us! The public fortunately are not as thick as our glorious leaders would like to believe!
Metaphorically 'Storming the Bastions of privilege' is often performed by the comparatively privileged (by dint of access to the education and the evidence necessary for the 'assaults') against those who currently wield or who have held executive power.
A contentious area, n'est-ce pas?!
And don't get me started on the wide church that constitutes the genre 'Conspiracy Theories'!
Politicians tend to hate or discount Historians.
Why?
Because we know that there are no new tricks, just new toys. Their chicanery and Sleights of hand are obvious to us because we know that's how their game works, their necessary go-to, their tool-kits and skill-sets.
In return, Historians tend to have a healthy dislike and distrust of authority figures.
Because we know.
We may find some of them more sympathetic than others, certainly, but that should never detract from our pulling them up when we detect poor judgement, corrupt decisions, accidents waiting to happen or, to use Barbara Tuchman's thesis 'Folly': deliberately carrying on demonstrably failing policies in the hope that it'll work this time!
I have read novels in the past, fictionalised history or, rather, human interest stories, that meander around areas of history that are a jump down from the actions - or fictions! - purportedly performed by the Great and the Good.
The history is messier and nastier, certainly less binary.
As it is at most levels in real life!
But the fictional dimension gives room to explore the impact of all too often sanitised Great Events upon us ordinary people.
And hint at elements of the story that are still locked away inside those files in boxes on shelves in archives all over the world!
A statue at least, but I would argue the expense would be easily justified to mount statues of the brave sod on every lampost in London in the instant before his tragic death. And should a worker fall to their death performing this theatre, well, mon dieu, life imitating art imitating . . that other thing. Imagine trying to live on an island where you had to make this stuff up?!
Sending oh nos and anyways 🤣
I read that as 'parrot' 💀💀💀
It could be done, they do teach them to say racist things and do tricks. Oh wait, I’m talking about patriots…
👍🏼🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
OK, I'm gonna be That Guy, I'm afraid. Yeah, the guy was a dick, but this is really sad. What a thing to devote your life to,and what a stupid way to die. I feel for his missus, family and friends. Now watch Tommy Ten-Names and Fartage - the scum who persuade the gullible to do this sort of thing - get as much publicity as they can out of it.
yes, he was a dick and the probability is that his wife, family and friends are also dicks and were really proud of him.
Maybe, but a waste of a life i always sad, whoever it is. I can't work up any enthusiasm for laughing at him, doesn't help a damn thing as far as I can see.
in no way was i laughing at him - just making a point.
No you weren't, Jill - didn't mean to imply that sorry. I was referring to others on the thread.
ok ty :)
Gravity: It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
Ladders are obviously muslimatic deathtraps
Ladders are KHamas!
He was only playing ‘Snakes and Ladders’
I’m picturing a new UK flag - one composed of symbols and colors of all the places and cultures that the British Empire raided to make up the best aspects, the products and people and ideas, of a still-beautiful country. I’ll risk my neck to climb a ladder and fly that one everywhere.
We're going to need a bigger lamppost.
There's a more effective way to mark your territory: poop in every corner and house. But that's something the BBC and similar media outlets already do.
The Devil IsRael. The Antichrist.
We should at the very least get Stephen Yaxley to pay for his funeral...